Your government lying to you

Here is my article from March 2006:

http://www.spacebanter.com/archive/index.php/t-76697.html

Subject: Re: How the WMD’s were moved out of Iraq
Date: 17 Mar 2006 16:28:47 -0800

thereactionary wrote:
> Again you are a liar. Saddam murdered over 300,000 of his own people.

Didn’t most of these 300,000 alleged and (yet-unproven!) murders happen
during the Iraq-Iran war, in which the USA was the staunch supporter
and sponsor of Saddam and cheered all his actions? As in ((from now
on, I am just quoting the first results that my google search
produces):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,3604,1265520,00.html
“The estimate of 300,000 Iraqis killed by the Ba’athists also includes
deaths for which the western powers arguably bear some responsibility.
According to the US state department, most of the graves discovered to
date correspond to five major atrocities committed by the Saddam
Hussein regime: the 1983 attack against Kurds of the Barzani tribe; the

1988 Anfal campaign against the Kurds, for which estimates of the
numbers killed vary from 50,000 to 180,000; chemical attacks against
Kurdish villages from 1986 to 1988; … Saddam’s brutal attacks on the
Kurds in the 1980s occurred as part of the Iran-Iraq war, during which
the Reagan administration supported and armed his regime. When that war

ended in 1988 Saddam sought to consolidate his rule at home; in the
Anfal campaign he sent forces to quell the Kurdish uprising in the
north (supported by the Iranians), again with US consent.”
———————————–

So, another US puppet is being a genocidist. What else is new?
That’s how USA operates: it creates and sponsors genocidal monsters all

over the World and then gets really surprised and upset when these
monsters turn against their own creator. Doesn’t anybody in the US
government know the story of Dr. Frankenstein?

Even Bin Laden himself was originally created, trained and funded by
the CIA for the purpose of terrorizing and murdering Russians in
Afghanistan. As in:

http://msnbc.com/news/190144.asp
BIN LADEN’S BEGINNINGS
As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia
to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after Moscow’s invasion in
1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as the MAK
which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the

Afghan war.
What the CIA bio conveniently fails to specify is that the MAK was
nurtured by Pakistan’s state security services, the Inter-Services
Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA’s primary conduit for conducting
the covert war against Moscow’s occupation.
Yet the CIA … found that Arab zealots who flocked to aid the Afghans
were easier to “read” than the rivalry-ridden natives. While the
Arab volunteers might well prove troublesome later, the agency
reasoned, they at least were one-dimensionally anti-Soviet for now. So
bin Laden, along with a small group of Islamic militants from Egypt,
Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian refugee camps all over the
Middle East, became the “reliable” partners of the CIA in its war
against Moscow…
Most of these Afghan vets turned up later behind violent Islamic
movements around the world…
———————————–

In the 1990s and 2000s, after USA fell out of love with Saddam, Al
Qaeda, which has been Saddam’s worst enemy, was welcomed into lands
that USA had wrestled from Saddam. For example, when USA effectively
liberated Northern Iraq (Kurdistan) from Saddam after the first Iraq
war and made it a no-fly zone for Saddam (so called “Northern No-Fly
Zone”), Al Qaeda was immediately invited by Kurds to establish
terrorist bases and chemical plants there in Ansar al-Islam. For
example:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:y0ccYjhqVLYJ:www.back-to-iraq.com…
February 10, 2003
I went stumbling around Iraqi Kurdistan, the northern part of Iraq
outside Saddam’s direct control….
The Ansar al-Islam enclave, according to Salih and American
intelligence officials, soon became the base of operations of an Al
Qaeda subgroup called Jund al-Shams… Jund al-Shams is controlled by a

man named Mussa’ab al-Zarqawi. Zarqawi is believed by European
intelligence agencies to be Al Qaeda’s main specialist in chemical and
biological terrorism…
American intelligence officials believe that Zarqawi was also among an
unknown number of Al Qaeda terrorists who have sought refuge in the
Ansar al-Islam over the past seventeen months.
———————————–

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm
Profile: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
Kurdish connection
Zarqawi … is believed to have fled to Iraq in 2001… US officials
argue that it was at al-Qaeda’s behest that he moved to Iraq and
established links with Ansar al-Islam – a group of Kurdish Islamists
from the north of the country. He is thought to have remained with them

for a while – feeling at home in mountainous northern Iraq.
———————————–

The American planes patrolled the Kurd airspace day and night in order
to protect their Kurd and Al Qaeda friends from their enemy Saddam.
From the other side, Saddam other deadly enemy, Iranian ayatollahs,
were also helping Zarqawi. See: Americans, Zarqawi and Iranian bigots
found something in common: their hatred for Saddam.
Everywhere US goes, it brings its Al Qaeda friends along. Even long
after the 9-11 terror, USA’s puppet regime of Pres. Shevardnadze in the
Rep. of Georgia arranged for Al Qaeda to bring huge amounts of a deadly
WMD (a potent poison called “ricin”) into Georgia in order to poison
Russian civilians. Only when the Al Qaeda men were caught smuggling
ricin into France and England (to terrorize the Russian Embassy, as was
later discovered) did USA realise that Al Qaeda had double-crossed them
once again. As in:

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901030120-40…

The al-Qaeda camps in Georgia’s Pankisi Valley – which until a
Georgian security crackdown last year was a lawless haven of
guerrillas, drug dealers and kidnappers – specialize, says Jacquard,
in training recruits in the use of explosives and in basic chemical
terror, including the poisoning of water and food supplies… Material
evidence collected during the Romainville raids leaves little doubt
that the cell was planning an attack, French sources say. Subsequent
testimony indicated that the plot was to target the Russian Embassy in
Paris – to punish Russia for its poor treatment of the Chechens.
———————————–

The most amazing thing is that USA then went to the UN and tried to
blame Saddam for the Al Qaeda camps and WMD plants in Georgia and
Kurdistan! That was the centerpiece of Powell’s notorious UN speech
made to justify the invasion of Iraq. As in:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.usa

UN Speech by Secretary of State Colin Powell
February 05, 2003

“But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially
much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the Al Qaida terrorist
network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and
modern methods of murder. Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network
headed by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, an associated in collaborator of Osama
bin Laden and his Al Qaida lieutenants.
When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped
establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this
camp is located in northeastern Iraq. You see a picture of this camp.
The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other
poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch–image a
pinch of salt–less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in
your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death
comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is
fatal. Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in
northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein’s controlled Iraq.
As my colleagues around this table and as the citizens they represent
in Europe know, Zarqawi’s terrorism is not confined to the Middle East.

Zarqawi and his network have plotted terrorist actions against
countries, including France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia.

We also know that Zarqawi’s colleagues have been active in the Pankisi
Gorge, Georgia and in Chechnya, Russia. The plotting to which they are
linked is not mere chatter. Members of Zarqawi’s network say their goal
was to kill Russians with toxins. ”
———————————–

And why does Powell blame Saddam and not his own buddies Kurds and
Georgians for sponsoring Zarqawi? Here is the only concrete and
semi-verifiable “damning evidence” against Saddam:

http://www.stuffiveheard.com/archives/speeches/
“Zarqawi’s activities are not confined to this small corner of north
east Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment,
staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to
fight another day.”
———————————–

This monster Zarqawi has been living and working for years with
America’s best friends Kurds in ‘northeast Iraq”, but because he
stayed in a Baghdad hospital for 2 months in order to receive medical
treatment (because Kurd extremists don’t have too many doctors),
Powell blames Saddam and not Kurds or Georgians! And instead of
invading and bombing fellow Georgia and Kurdistan, USA invaded Saddam’s
part of Iraq! Just because Iraqi doctors upheld their oath and
allegedly gave medical treatment to Al Zarqawi!
Powell even dares to say: “We are not surprised that Iraq is harboring
Zarqawi and his subordinates.”

Formally, this is indeed true. Indeed “Iraq is harboring Zarqawi and
his subordinates”. But not Saddam’s Iraq. Kurdish part of Iraq, Mr.
Secretary! You own best friends and allies! Why do you think we are too stupid to notice?

http://www.stuffiveheard.com/archives/speeches/
“Iraqi officials protest that they are not aware of the whereabouts of
Zarqawi or of any of his associates. Again, these protests are not
credible. We know of Zarqawi’s activities in Baghdad. I described them
earlier.”
———————————–

The only Zarqawi activity in Baghdad that you have described to us, Mr.
Secretary, was how he received medical treatment in Baghdad for two
months. So indeed, while Zarqawi was in some hospital, some Iraqi
doctors were aware of his whereabouts at that time. But he has long
since recovered and returned to Kurdistan. How can Saddam know
Zarqawi’s whereabouts in Kurdistan, Mr. Powell? Only you and your Kurd
friends know exactly where Zarqawi is. Give CIA a call and ask them
where exactly they send the food, clothes and the chemicals for
Zarqawi’s ricin manufacturing plant in Ansar al-Islam, Kurdistan.
Reader may ask: “there must have been more evidence in Powell’s speech
than that about Saddam’s and Al Qaeda’ sinister plot to terrorize the
World? Oh sure there was. For example:

http://www.stuffiveheard.com/archives/speeches/
Going back to the early and mid-1990s, when bin Laden was based in
Sudan, an Al Qaida source tells us that Saddam and bin Laden reached an
understanding that Al Qaida would no longer support activities against
Baghdad.
———————————–

Yes, friends, Baghdad and Al Qaeda were so in love with each other that
Al Qaida used to conduct terrorist activities against Baghdad. That’s
how much they were in love!
And then Saddam convinced Al Qaeda to no longer terrorize Baghdad. How
dare he!!!!! The fact that Al Qaeda and Baghdad reached a cease-fire
agreement and Al Qaeda stopped terrorizing Baghdad proves that Al Qaeda
and Baghdad have always been best friends and allies.

http://www.stuffiveheard.com/archives/speeches/
Some believe, some claim these contacts do not amount to much. They say
Saddam Hussein’s secular tyranny and Al Qaida’s religious tyranny do
not mix. I am not comforted by this thought.
———————————–

Tell us, honorable US Secretary of State, Sir, what thoughts ARE you
“comforted by”? Thoughts that your boss has just asked you to
impudently lie in the most widely seen, read, and listened speech in
World history? Aren’t you ashamed of this Goebbels-like demagoguery and
prevarication? Of course you are! Rumor has it that you later resigned
specifically because you had been forced by our fearless and honorable
leader Dick “I usually don’t shoot while drunk” Cheney into
making a lying cheating a**hole of yourself in front of 6 billion
people all over the World.
In fact, embarrassed by this impudent lying about Al Qaeda and Baghdad
“ricin connection”, the right-wing establishment later had to invent
the story that, even though Zarqawi was indeed living and busily
working among America’s allies in Kurdistan and Georgia, Powell had
also lied about the existence of ricin itself. Here is what the famous
right-wing Jamestown Foundation now says about this lying:

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2369023
In the buildup to the Iraqi war in early 2003, dozens of North
Africans (mainly Algerians) were arrested in Britain, France and Spain
on charges of preparing ricin and other chemical weapons. Colin Powell
and others trumpeted the arrests as proof of the threat posed by the
Zarqawi-Chechen-Pankisi ricin network (which had now been expanded to
include the Ansar al-Islam of Kurdish northern Iraq).
French and British security officials were astounded by Powell’s
insistence on February 12, 2003, that “the ricin that is bouncing
around Europe now originated in Iraq.” With the Iraq invasion only
weeks away, the source of the ricin threat moved from Georgia to Iraq.
———————————–

Even the most right-wing zealots make fun of Powell’s speech. Yes,
fiends, let’s rejoice in the honor and respect for America that our
Government evokes in people all over the World with such impudent and
obvious lies! Amazing impudence. Amazing belief that average people are so dumb that
they will swallow any insult to human logic that the US government
shoves down their open throats. Google has produced some 90,000 results for my searches on this
subject. Do you think I have been biasedly quoting only the mainstream
and the right wing? Here is one from the left wing:

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/comments.php?id=A1333_0_1_0_C
Northern Iraq was Zarqawi’s stomping ground pre-invasion, as his gang,
which has close ties to Ansar al-Islam, was based in the Northern
No-Fly zone. Both Ansar al-Islam and Zarqawi flourished in northern
Iraq where they were protected from Saddam Hussein’s regime by the US
and Britain.
———————————–

And more from mainstream:

USA TODAY, February 6, 2003
On Wednesday, Secretary of State Colin Powell put Ansar and its base
here at the heart of the White House’s case that al-Qaeda and Saddam
are connected. He said the link runs through Abu Musab Zarqawi, a bin
Laden lieutenant whom U.S. officials say Saddam is harboring. Zarqawi’s
“network” is testing ricin and other poisons at an Ansarcamp here,
Powell said… The group’s stronghold is in a hard-to-reach area along
the border with Iran in a pocket that, until 2001, was overseen by a
fledgling Kurdish administration… Powell acknowledged that Ansar’s
base is in a part of Iraq that has been outside Saddam’s control since
a Kurdish uprising in 1991.
———————————–

Yes, Powell did sort of mention that Zarqawi’s operations was out of
Saddam’s control. But then he decided to blame Saddam for it anyway.
And he used this argument as “the heart of the White House’s case that
al-Qaeda and Saddam are connected”!

Why? Because, according to Powell, he is “not comforted by” the fact
that Saddam has nothing to do with Zarqawi.

You see, truth doesn’t comfort American leaders. Truth doesn’t allow
them to do what Exxon wants them to do. Lies, libel, slander,
falsifications – that’s what comforts them.

Impudent lies is what comforts American politicians and allows them to
get re-elected with the campaign contributions from Exxon and Lockheed,
which in turn steal this money from the average American taxpayers to
the tune of $250 billion just for Iraq alone. And thousands of
American boys are dying in the faraway god-forsaken hellhole called
“Iraq”, where the entire population consists of Al Qaeda-loving
genocidal Shiites and Kurds, and Saddam-loving genocidal Sunnis!
And the TV-boob idiots believe that all this lying and dying and $250
billion waste is done not for the sake of making an extra $billion or
two for Exxon, but for only one purpose: to “bring love, tolerance,
brotherhood, peace, truth, honor, democracy and freedom to the Iraqi
people”, who love them oh so much.

Fine. I can believe that Iraqis love truth more than you and your
bosses do, Mr. Powell. Pathological liars love truth more than you do.
But peace, brotherhood, tolerance and democracy?! The Iraqis love love
(pun intended), peace, brotherhood, and tolerance so much that they
will commit mutual genocide and fratricide in their name at the drop of
the hat.

Let me finish this Festival of Lies and Laughs by giving you a
hilarious Freudian example of what idiots our Government takes American
voters and taxpayers for. Here is what our Attorney General told the
American people last month (with a straight face!), when asked by
people’s representatives why the Administration is so fond of illegal
spying on its own people:

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=1609248
US Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, testifying to Senate:
” I, I gave in my opening statement, Senator, examples where President
Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt
have all authorized electronic surveillance of an enemy on a far
broader scale.”
———————————–

Ain’t it coll?

I wonder how “Honest Abe” Lincoln and George “I cannot tell a lie”
Washington would react if they heard what our Attorney General said
about them; and how fast they were spinning in their graves during
Powell’s speech. I bet our modern government officials send Washington,

Jefferson and Lincoln spinning so fast, that we can tie electric
generators to them and solve all our energy problems.

>
> It’s a liberation of Iraq from an unelected dictatorship microbrain.
>
> Now they can travel ….
>

I am glad they can travel now. This way they’ll be able to spread their
genocidal Al Qaeda ways all over the Planet. Hold on, New Yorkers! The
newly liberated Iraqi Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites are bringing Al
Qaeda’s suicide bombing to your homes in Manhattan and Brooklyn! And
for dessert, they will treat you to the ricin gas! It’s just like
laughing gas, only 1000000 times funnier. It will tickle your funny
bone. Tickle you to death. I ain’t lying…

And our State Department will once again blame Saddam for all this
mayhem. Or Putin. Or maybe Milosevic. Milosevic is best. Milosevic is
dead now, so we can blame him for everything. He won’t mind.

Maybe Saddam will die soon too. Then we’ll be able to blame him for the
American Slavery, for the Holy Catholic Inquisition and for the
Crusades.

Eric Chomko wrote:
> Ich bin ein Berliner!
>
> Where do I sign up?
>

I am not sure, but I can tell you where to sign up to become a Frankfurter, a Wiener or a Hamburger though… We’ll even allow you to hire an assistant. A Hamburger helper, so to speak.

http://www.spacebanter.com/archive/index.php/t-76697.html

RE: Fraud in Gagarin’s Flight Record Claims — FAI Doesn’t Care
April 21st 06, 01:38 AM
US government and media has made lying and fraud a paramount component of their
foreign policy. Sure, Goebbels and Soviets did lie a lot, but it really
took the American media and politicians to tell lies that are so
obvious.

In the past, the US media and government felt that they were committing
fraud and lies just trying to compete against their enemies: Nazis and
Soviets. But after those two ideologies disappeared, US propaganda
machine lost all the challenge and became so obvious that it makes the
rest of the World shake with laughter.

At first, US government was just doing what Goebbels had taught them.
For example, Hitler started the notorious Reichstag fire in order to
blame Communists and Socialists for it and use this as a pretext to ban
rival parties and democratic elections. Next, he started WWII by
dressing some German soldiers in Polish uniforms, killing them, and
then calling journalists to show them how “Poland had attacked Germany
first”.

Similarly, USA faked a second Tonkin attack in order to fool the
American public into approving the Viet Nam war, which later devastated
the very foundations of American society.

Similar kind of lies were used to invade Grenada and especially Panama,
whose legitimate president had to be removed and kidnapped in order to
prevent him from going public on the CIA role in the international drug
trading business.

New heights of deception were reached 1990s, when USA and Germany set
their eyes on destroying and re-balkanizing the Balkans, whose unity
under Marshal Tito posed a geopolitical threat. The
“divide-and-conquer” principles mandated that Yugoslavia simply has to
be partitioned into tiny principalities, all hating and fighting each
other, ripe for USA control and occupation. A campaign of
misinformation was launched all over the West, in which the Serbs were
portrayed as sole perpetrators, while Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians
were innocent victims. Numerous fake “slaughters” and “market
explosions” were planted and blamed on Serbs. Every time some 200
Bosnians lost their homes, this was blared on the front pages of all
Western newspapers, while the most horrible genocide in the modern
Balkan history – the ethnic cleansing against 400,000 Serb civilians in
Krajina, Croatia – was purposefully and willfully not reported by
Western media.

Things got even worse in Kosovo, where the genocidal Islamic extremists
form KLA were portrayed as “innocent victims” of Yugoslav police. CIA
went so far as to stage the notorious Racak “massacre”, in which KLA
and CIA gathered fighters, slain in the fighting between KLA and the
government forces, into one place and declared that these were
“innocent civilians executed on that spot by Serb genocidists”. Afraid
that the international commission would quickly expose this fraud, USA
hurried up, declared Serbs guilty of a massacre without a trial, and
used Racak as a pretext to commit a naked aggression against
Yugoslavia, China and against the international law.

After the Serbs surrendered, NATO took control over Kosovo, leading to
genocide against 200,000 ethnic Serbs and 100,000 Gypsies at the hands
of KLA. Again, this horrible genocide was virtually unreported for a
long time, despite the cries of desperation coming form the
international Gypsy and Serb community, who were being treated by
KLA/NATO almost as brutally as the German Nazi treated them during the
Gypsy Holocaust of WWII.

And this wasn’t military deception tactics like the ones the Soviets
used to confuse the CIA as to the real location f Baikonur. These were
lies and fraud aimed at deceiving America’s and Europe’s own public.

But at least there was some level of ingenuity to these frauds in
Clinton times. At least the public didn’t know the truth and couldn’t
always see that it was being lied to. With the coming of Bush, it
decided that it’s OK if the listener knows that he is being lied to.
>From a sophisticated propaganda and disinformation machine, USA has
turned into a cheap compulsive liar that takes pride in the fact that
all of its listeners saw the lies.

Goebbels said that the bigger and more outrageous the lie is, the more
the public will believe it. But even Goebbels didn’t expect the extent
to which the US government took this Nazi idea. The notorious speech,
that the US Secretary Powell was forced by his bosses to make at the UN
in order to “justify’ the aggression against Iraq, is a perfect
document for study by the scholars of American government lies.

Since you like to write books on subjects that you know nothing about,
it may be a good idea for you to count the number of lies in that
speech and to publish a book to list and explain all of them. For
example, how many obvious lies are contained in that speech? More than
1,000? More than 10,000?

And I am not talking about the subtle lies like those about WMDs. I am
talking about the eye-popping eyes about the “Saddam-Al Qaeda”
connection. The lies that made the 3 billion or so people, listening to
that speech, exclaim again and again: ‘Did he REALLY say that?!!!!!”

I don’t have time to discuss that speech in its entirety (as I said,
you should write a book) but here is a re-post of my older article
discussing just one millionth part of the of the amazing impudent lies
contained in that masterpiece of a speech. (see above)

Also read:

http://www.whodies.com/lies_threat.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,3604,1265520,00.html

“The estimate of 300,000 Iraqis killed by the Ba’athists also includes
deaths for which the western powers arguably bear some responsibility.
According to the US state department, most of the graves discovered to
date correspond to five major atrocities committed by the Saddam
Hussein regime: the 1983 attack against Kurds of the Barzani tribe; the

1988 Anfal campaign against the Kurds, for which estimates of the
numbers killed vary from 50,000 to 180,000; chemical attacks against
Kurdish villages from 1986 to 1988; … Saddam’s brutal attacks on the
Kurds in the 1980s occurred as part of the Iran-Iraq war, during which
the Reagan administration supported and armed his regime. When that war
ended in 1988 Saddam sought to consolidate his rule at home; in the
Anfal campaign he sent forces to quell the Kurdish uprising in the
north (supported by the Iranians), again with US consent.”

3/17/06

Do the Iraqi people have different values than Americans? Yes, they do.
Do they have a totally different culture than Americans? Yes. Will the
same solutions that work in America work in Iraq? Of course not.

You or I may value the freedom of speech above the right to live in
health and safety. Some say “Give me freedom or give me death!”.

But maybe Iraqis will say: “Take away my freedom of speech but please
spare my life!”

Who said that the latter approach is inferior to the former?

Why do you, a guy living in North America, decide what kind of
governments and freedoms the people of Iraq should or shouldn’t have?
Live your own life and let Iraqis live theirs.

Are you any different from the traditional Communists who also had this
wonderful idea that the people around the World should live in this
great Communist Utopia, where everybody loves everybody else, everybody
works for the benefit of the society for 2 hours per day and paints
art for the rest of the day. A great fantasy! But the Communists
tried to force their idealist fantasy down the throats of many-many
nations. And instead of creating Paradise, their efforts resulted in
deaths and suffering. Because the people, whom they tried to coerce
into the Paradise, weren’t ready for it. And so we got disasters like
Cambodia.

Just like the Communists who tried to shove their ideals of “equality,
fraternity, and liberty” down the throats of other nations, you want to
shove your ideals of “give me freedom or give me death” down the
throats of other nations.

And you are ready to sacrifice the lives of millions of
Iraqis in order for the surviving five Iraqis to live under “freedom”? Why
will Iraqis need freedom if they are dead anyway? Isn’t the right to
life more basic than the right to free speech?

So why don’t you do what the International Law says you should do: stop
telling other countries how to live and stop naked aggressions against
them.

And please stop pretending like the real reason why US invaded Iraq was
its concern for the freedoms of Iraqi people and not its greed for
Iraqi oil.

Because if you were REALLY concerned about the freedoms of other
peoples – why didn’t you invade Chile while it was suffering under the
CIA-sponsored fascist junta?

Why don’t you invade Georgia which has been oppressing Ossetians. Or
Russia which is opprerssing Chechens. Or China which is oppressing
Tibetans. Or Turkey which has been committing genocide against its own
Kurds?

>
> >”Same as in Yugoslavia: first USA raped Serbia under the pretext of

> >bringing peace and order to Kosovo and preventing any ethnic tensions
> >there, but after USA won and the KLA executed its genocide against
> >Serbs and Gypsies in Kosovo under the US supervision – the US leaders
> >said: “It’s not our job to keep the peace and order in Kosovo. Our job
> >is to sit quietly here on the porch with our weapons and our beers and
> >watch how the KLA monsters rape and murder Gypsies and Serbs.””
>
> You really are a fucking anti US bigot, aren’t you. The peacekeeping
> operation in Kosovo is now a UN operation. We are not even the major
> players.
>

Look. Did the Serb and Gypsy victims of the Kosovar genocide have all
their “freedoms”? Like the freedom to live? No, they didn’t.

But you just told us earlier that if people in some country suffer from
a lack of freedom, then USA must interfere there to protect their
freedoms, didn’t you?

Like we did in Iraq. Iraq was a “Saddam operation”. But you still
invaded it in order to protect the freedoms of average Iraqis.

So, even if Kosovo were indeed “a UN operation”, then why didn’t you
invade Kosovo anyway in order to protect the freedoms and lives of
average Serbs and Gypsies living there?

Afterall, US had already waged one Kosovar war allegedly to protect
Albanians. Why not wage a second one to protect Slavs, Gypsies and
Jews? Or do you really believe in the Nazi doctrine that Slavs, Gypsies
and Jews are “second class sub-humans” not worthy of protection?!

>
> This is in the back yard of the Euros and it should be their
> problem, not ours.
>

And Iraq is in the “back yard” of Russians, Iranians and Saudi
Arabians. So why is it your problem and not theirs? In fact,
geographically, Iraq is much more in the backyard of our oppontents
like France and Germany than in the backyard of USA.

So what is it that makes Iraq to be in the American backyard, while
Kosovo is in the “Euro” backyard? We all know the answer: because
Iraq has lots of oil. That’s why this obscure country on the
opposite end of the Globe is suddenly in “our backyard”.

That’s exactly how USA decides which countries to rape next: if this
rape is in the interest of oil companies and other special interest
groups – we’ll do it. Otherwise – not.

I bet you can’t give a logical justification for this, can you?

>
> But all you do is shit on the US and no one else.
>

I don’t? Sure I do. I often criticize Albanians, Iranians, Georgians
and North Koreans. And I criticize the now defunct Soviet Communists,
and Nazi Germans, and many others.

But I have this principle: I shit on those who commit aggression
against the international law.

So if France/Denmark/Sweden/Holland invades another country – I will
gladly shit on France/Denmark/Sweden/Holland.

But the way it stands right now – 99% of all aggressions against other
countries in the World are committed by Americans. And more than half
of all the money spent in the World on weapons of death is spent by the
US government.

And it is the US government that wastes many $hundreds of billions of
dollars per year on war while denying its own children basic public
school education and cutting school funds.

That’s why I shit on the US government.

>
> You are a really disgusting piece of American hating left wing crap
> aren’t you?
>

No I am not. I am a right-wing libertarian.

And please try to abstain from filthy and cheap swearing and
name-calling. It makes you look even more imbecilic, deranged and
disgusting (to use your own terminology) than you actually are.

Let’s just say that we have different values.

You like war. I don’t.

I respect sovereignty. You don’t.

I respect human life. You don’t.

I understand that different countries have different cultures,
traditions and values. You don’t.

I put human life above the needs of Exxon and Lockheed shareholders.
You do the opposite.

You think it is the obligation of American taxpayers to die of poverty
in order to fund corrupt politicians and the military industrial
complex. I don’t.

I will die of natural causes. You will sooner or later be hanged in
Nuremberg.

You are a hypocrite. I am not.

I am a libertarian. I believe in a very small government that minds its
own business, doesn’t tax its own people to death, and doesn’t harass
its own citizens or foreign countries.

You are a fascist. Or, as you call yourself, “the reactionary”. You
believe in a humongous government that wastes $trillions per year and
terrorizes the whole world.

Let me give you another example. A couple of months prior to 9-11 I had
a lively discussion with some left-wing fascist radio host at KGO, I
think. She spent the whole hour shitting on Israel because Israel
denied journalists access to a battle between the Israelis and
Palestinians. She was exclaiming: “What kind of a monstrous country
would deny journalists free access to information?!”

And I called and asked “Well, how is denying journalists access to a
battle any worse than what USA did in Belgrade when it bombed the TV
station there and killed 16 journalists and technicians in it?”.

And she replied: “We were at war with Yugoslavia. And in the war, the
enemy journalists and radio stations are fair targets. I have to qualms
about that.”

And I replied: “Well, if we were at war with Yugoslavia, then
Yugoslavia was at war with us, right?”

And she replied: “I guess so”

And I said: “Then during that time the Yugoslavs had a full right to
bomb you yourself and your own KGO station to death, right?”

And she uttered “Oooph..” and went to a commercial.

So if some Iraqis or Yugoslavs or Panamanians or Saudi Arabians drive
their planes through our skyscraper or our TV tower tomorrow – ask
yourself: “Did we provoke them into this? Did our invasion of their
countries and our murder of their journalists justify such actions in
their eyes?”

Consider this. To you, “freedom” is the most important thing in life.
And you will invade other countries and sponsor genocides in the name
of “freedom”, whatever that term means to you.

But to Bin Laden, the “word of God” is the most important thing in
life. Then why isn’t he equally justified in using violence to spread
“word of God”?

Why is your value system any better than Bin Laden’s? Do you really
think that Bin Laden is less sincere in his love for “God” than you are
in your love for “Freedom”?

That’s why we must insist that EVERYBODY (including Americans) stops
telling other peoples what to do.

Otherwise we shall have EVERYBODY killing everybody else in the name of
their favorite ideology, be it Communism, Equality, Democracy, Freedom,
Word of God or whatever else.

And more than that: stop pretending that Cheney and his Halliburton
actually wage these wars against the rest of the World out of
altruistic motives like “spreading freedom” or “spreading the word of
God”, and not out of the greed of our oil and military companies and of
the politicians whom they own.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!search/Tell$20us,$20honorable$20US$20Secretary$20of$20State,$20Sir,$20what$20thoughts$20ARE$20you$20vkarlamov@yahoo.com/alt.politics.bush/8tCsat0woJc/wRgW0xm5GTQJ

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  1. […] economic prosperity to give the Americans their independence from the British, refused to believe the lies that the US government told the UN about the “weapons of mass destruction” in I… – and threatened to veto the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the American officials and media went […]

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